What's the Point?
Two weeks ago I talked about three goals of RPG play. I somewhat playfully named them thusly: "People want to Kick Ass, they want to Make it Real, or they want it to Mean Something." This is not to say there can't be other goals, but these are the ones identified by theorists at the Forge. And remember, this is only one set of preferences, based on the actual point of play. Things like crunchy mechanics, getting deeply in character, or high fantasy settings, are different preferences entirely.
Munchkins are from Baator, Immersionists are from Elysium
So, let's break down these play goals a bit, beyond my flippant titles. First, lemme say that it's all about what's the point: if you have lots of Ass-kickin' and you also manage to say something Meaningful, but it's the Meaningful that's really the IT thing, then it's all cool to have the Ass-kickin' in there backing it up. But I mean really backing it up, not constantly push-pulling over which one is really important, or making concessions to Mister Kickass Player in hopes that he'll reward YOU, Mister Meaningful Player, with the same courtesy. I mean, do what you want; if everyone's happy at the end of the day, great, but the Theory would suggest that if you take one goal and do it up to the nines, that can be even (as in way) better.
So. Ass-kicking. This one's easy to scope out, even if we didn't have a long-standing tradition of a certain quite popular RPG catering toward it. It's challenge. Competition, though it can be co-operative as well as cutthroat. It's all about coming through when the chips are down, being a rules-god, and owning anything that gets in your way. It doesn't have to be mindless or ignore the "story," or even be combat-focused, it just has to value trouncing obstacles above all. We do this all the time with sports, boardgames, videogames, whatever, so it's no surprise that people wanna do this with RPGs too.
Then, Making it Real. This is a bit tricky. It's about imagining, but of course, all roleplaying is imagining, so it's more than that. It's when creating a perfect picture of the imagined thing is more important than anything else, when getting Middle Earth or a Galaxy Far Far Away, or making your own setting or whatever, just hum and breathe with life, is more important than rocking the combat or making important statements. Those can happen, if the internal logic of the world peremits it, but it's cool if it doesnt, and not cool if it takes over.
Aaand, Meaning Something. This one's kind of a literary goal, but it's not just aping your favorite stories or anything, that's covered above. This is about doing what all the best books and plays and movies have always done for you even if you didn't have words for it. It's making a statement about some human condition, or reveling in the fallout from a really hard choice, asking tough questions like "how far will you go for that belief?" It's what lit professors talk about when they speak of "conflict." It's not "do I kill the guy?" It's "why do I kill the guy?" or "What will it cost me to kill the guy?" There's a thousand different questions and a thousand ways to ask 'em, but that's the gist.
Agenda Clash of the Titans
So whaddya do with these goals once you know you have them? Well, the best advice is to A) play with people who share the same goals, and B) Find a system that works best to support that. "System" meaning "How you actually play," not "what's written in a rulebook." But the flipside is that game designers could benefit from learning how to put the right tools in so players wouldn't have to tweak the hell out of the rules to get what they want out of it.
So why the exclusivity? Can't you have it all? Deeply explored world, kickass fights, and meaningful statements? Sure, maybe. But there are a million little ways that things can unravel. For instance, if you're using a ruleset that incentivizes certain activity (like, oh, I don't know, kill stuff, get experience, level up, gain more ability to kill stuff), other activities are liable to get marginalized. Maybe not edged out, but probably not present enough for players who really get their meat 'n potatoes that way. And speaking of players, what if some folks in the group are after one goal, and the rest are after another, so that neither set really gets what they're after, only little hints and teases? As I said earlier, it's cool if one goal works in support of another, such as cool, competitive fights being supportive of the portrayal of the world the group is emulating, or the vivid emulation of the world being essential to the thematic statements the group is making. But if a group tries to fulfil two or more goals equally, something's probably gotta give.
So that's the three play goals; "Creative Agenda" they're called. Is everyone clear on these? Does any of this sound familiar? Any questions or objections? What does or doesn't make sense?
Peace,
-Joel

7 Comments:
Interesting discection of the different 'goals' of RP, Joel.
I especially agree with the part about finding the right system for the type of game the players and GM are looking for. Some just reward combat, while others have no real 'set' system for 'leveling-up' that it makes story flow much easier.
Thanks for reading, Sheldon!
I think there's a fairly widespread attitude in RPGdom of "we can make any system work for what we want to do." Especially "with the right GM" or whatever. For instance Colleen when she runs D&D is really working against the grain of the system to get what she wants. She does a great job, and I'd say she does get much of what she wants out of it, but would have an easier time in a better-facilitating system. I now approach D&D with completely different expectations than I would, say, Over the Edge. If you wanna read more check out the "System Does Matter" essay, the first link in my "Reccommended Reading" post.
I'm curious what you think of the goal incompatibility issues I mentioned. Some people (Matt, for instance, who's the only person in our group who I've been able to discuss theory with so far) have a hard time believing that the Agendas could be mutually exclusive. I can only say that over years of play I've seen incompatible play, I venture almost to say constantly. Whether it breaks down along Creative Agenda lines, I dunno, but there's some source to all this friction, and Forge Theory seems to diagnose it pretty well.
Also, it's not a matter of all or nothing, such as "Meaningful Statement players don't care about winning fights or believable setting." It's about priorities: when you have to choose between winning a fight and making a thematic statement, which wins out? And finally, don't mistake it for a personality test kind of thing. It's about priority right now, for this game. it's fine to switch around. Ron Edwards, the guy who founded a lot of this theory stuff, recently gave a video interview where he talked about having a gaming "itch" that needed scratching for years; when he finally figured out how to scratch it (the Mean Something itch), he could be a lot more laidback about it and try other styles. I think that's where I'm at right now: trying to get this One. Particular. Itch. scratched, and getting impatient (and I'll admit it, testy) with other kinds of play.
Hello just a stranger passing through here :) I got the link to your blog from your sig in the forge.
I think your descriptions of creative agenda pretty much hit the nail on the head from what I have seen. I'll be passing the link to it on to some of the people I try and game with :)
Awesome, Dan! Thanks!
Great comments, I think that one of the hardest challenges is finding people with the same goals. Then again finding someone who can articulate what thy want is also rare. Most know they want something but not really sure what it is. Theory just adds thoughts to wants. So that then we can articulate what we want.
Have a great day
Joel
from what i have seen, satisfying everyones hunger in an RP session is nigh impossible and only slightly more possible in an entire string of sessions. you know i love to "grind meat" and i see you struggle with the question of "why" alot of the time and depending on the campaign, one of us will go wanting and without. i think your explainations were quite good. see you around.
Great post! Tying each of your titled playing styles back to its 'Forge' title might be helpful to some readers. But I think you captured Gamist, Narrativist, and Simulationist styles pretty well. I'm looking forward to future posts.
Mel
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